New conference, new rivals? OU's move to SEC may feed new rivalries, renew old ones

What about Missouri football? Arkansas softball? It's a new world for the Sooners.

Wake up, Sooners — it’s a new day. 

You're in the SEC. 

Yes, the move became official at midnight Monday with OU's move to the Southeastern Conference becoming real and true. 

OU, of course, is taking rival Texas with it. But what about other rivalries? What bad blood could bubble up in football, softball, basketball and all the other sports? 

I'm excited to talk about the possibilities with my buddy and Tulsa World columnist Berry Tramel on The Jenni Carlson Show. 

Episode highlights

1:25: Even though Texas is joining OU in the SEC, is there another SEC school primed to become a Sooner rival?

4:52: What about football specifically? Any teams likely to be an OU rival?

9:55: Sooner softball will still have Mike White. What about other SEC rivals in softball?

12:30: Does OU men’s basketball have any likely new rivalries in the SEC?

15:45: Jennie Baranczyk vs. Kim Mulkey, anyone?

17:30: Will Skip Johnson and OU baseball even have time for rivalries while just trying to compete in the SEC?

Producer: Jacquelyn Musgrove

Creative Director: Michael Lane

Transcript

Jenni: All right, BT, how's life? How's it going?

Berry: Well, a little on the hot side, but the good news about when it gets real hot, it means summer is in full swing, which means football is not that far away. So that's what gets me through the hot days.

Jenni: Knowledge that we’ll be playing football, watching football, enjoying football soon. But people are definitely thinking about football already with OU’s move to the SEC becoming official. We've talked before that there's a lot about life in the SEC that we don't know. But we do know that OU takes its biggest rival in the league, will be its biggest rival basically as it has been forever, Texas. But that's got me thinking about the other rivals that could be out there, Berry. Let's talk about whether there might just be another school, first of all, is there a potential secondary rival for OU that the Sooners might see as a rival in the SEC?

Berry: Well, some of this will be determined by the competitive situation. Like the great Cowboys-49ers rivalry in the NFL in the ‘90s. That was not mandated by history, geography, anything. It was mandated by, ‘Hey, these were the two best teams, and they kept colliding.’ So, you know, we'll see how that turns out, whether it's OU-Alabama or OU-LSU, that kind of thing. 

But if you take away that, I think there is sort of a hidden rival prospect, and it's not anybody new, it's somebody old and that's Missouri. You know, OU-Missouri go way back to the 1910s. They were in the conference together when it was called the Missouri Valley, way back circa 1920. Played every year until the Big 12 arrived, and they played twice every four years. They are ancient rivals. It was never a big rivalry in football. Sooners dominated, but the truth is … it's sort of like going to a new school and you see somebody you know, you get a little bit excited because ‘I know those people’ and they become better friends than when you knew each other at the old place. I could see that happening with OU-Missouri. 

Mizzou is a school that has sort of been adrift in the SEC. Haven't really found a good rival for themselves. Arkansas may be starting to get there, but I think OU-Missouri are gonna be permanent rivals if we go to the nine game schedule. So I think it would be most likely Texas, Missouri and Florida. So I would probably say Missouri. The program's getting better under Eli Drinkwitz. Missouri's ranked higher than OU going into this season. They play in Columbia on November 9. That could be a showdown type game. I think the Fighting Tigers might fit that bill.

Jenni: Yeah, I think that's an interesting one. Geography is interesting, too, with most of these teams are much further afield. Most of these schools are much further afield than the Big 12 schools have been. Arkansas is obviously right across the border. Texas A&M, a former Big 12 foe. So I'm curious to see sort of how those play in. I agree; I think Missouri is an interesting one to watch, but so much will come down to football. If those two are consistent football opponents with OU and Missouri, I think that could breed some contempt, some good sports hatred. But those three just from geography and previous history would be my leading contenders. But football, it is the determining factor. 

Let's talk about sport to sport. Is there a likely OU rival in the SEC in football? Texas aside, somebody that could really emerge as a rival for Oklahoma in football?

Berry: Texas A&M is a natural, of course, as you mentioned, but one of the problems you've got is, I don't think OU and A&M are going to be permanent rivals if they go to a nine-game schedule. If they stay at the eight-game schedule, nobody's going to be the permanent rival. It's hard to have a rivalry if you don't play every year. So if they stay with this eight-game nonsense, I don't know if anybody's going to be their rival. They'll end up playing, I don't know … North Texas as many as often as they play South Carolina.

So I think if you go to the nine-game … Missouri, Florida, Texas are the likely three. Florida would be an interesting one. Some similarities there. The Bob Stoops connection, those kinds of things. Arkansas would be the natural. It's two turnpikes over to the state line of Arkansas at Siloam Springs. From my house in northeast Norman to Fayetteville, I can get there in about three hours and 15 minutes. My brother can get there way quicker because he has no regard for his life or anybody else's. But it's not that far and yet they've never played. I think it was 1920, the last time they played in the regular season. But Arkansas is gonna be aligned with Texas and Missouri, I think. And I don't think the Sooners would get Arkansas as a permanent rivalry, but that would be a natural. You know, Oklahoma playing in the Ozarks. That would be something to behold.

Jenni: I like the idea of Florida. And I think you're right. I think you gotta have those consistent rivals with that nine-game schedule. But it's interesting to think about sort of these more far afield places. If OU does make the SEC Championship game a time or two in the first, say, five years that it's in the SEC, who is there waiting? Is there a team that they find themselves sort of knocking up against?

It's much like, Berry, to me, the NBA playoffs. You really don't have your rivals until you play them when it really matters. So, can the Sooners find themselves there playing for a potential SEC championship and then who's waiting for them? I think that could really be interesting. 

And to me, the Arkansas question is interesting for Texas because obviously Texas brings Oklahoma with them to the SEC, but then they reunite with Texas A&M, with Arkansas being a former Southwest Conference opponent for Texas. Do they reestablish something? I like Arkansas as a potential rival for OU, but Arkansas and Texas might rekindle something too.

Berry: Yeah, Arkansas-Texas … we figured this out, you know, a year ago when we thought they might be going to a nine-game. They don't want to load up somebody with too many tough rivals or not enough tough rivals. So that's why I think Arkansas doesn't make the cut for OU, but Arkansas-Texas would be, for people of a certain age, which includes me and not you, Texas-Arkansas was a big-time rivalry in the Southwest Conference. Usually played the week after OU-Texas, not great scheduling for the Longhorns, but that was a natural rivalry that went years and years and years. Of course, the famed big shootout of 1969 was a virtual national championship game. So I think that'll be a great rivalry restored in the SEC. So, that probably eliminates OU from the Razorbacks. 

And who knows what happens? Sooners might get down to Oxford this year and turns out Ole Miss, there's some kindling goes up and away you go. I actually think Oklahoma-Texas Tech turned into a really spirited rivalry in the Big 12, and we didn't see that coming at all. But all of a sudden, Mike Leach gets hired away from OU. He has the spread, the air raid, and every OU-Tech game seemed to be crazy for the next 20 years. So you never know from where it might be coming in the SEC. Almost anything's possible other than it probably won't be Vanderbilt.

Jenni: That's true. That is true. All right, let's go to the next biggest sport for people in our state. That's softball, Berry. Oklahoma obviously takes Texas. We're not going to be missing the Patty Gasso-Mike White rivalry. It continues. We love that rivalry. But what about softball? Is there a team or a couple teams on the softball scene in the SEC that you could see being rivals to the Sooners?

Berry: I think that's a place where Arkansas could be a player there because now, this has lessened a little bit with the opening of Love's Field — it seems like forever since OU played at Marita Hynes, but it was only 13 months ago, 14 months ago — but if you're a fan of OU softball, you had a devil of a time getting into the ballpark. Not enough tickets. Not enough seats. So the road trips, whether it was Waco or Puerto Vallarta, it didn't matter. OU fans would go. And I could see a bunch of OU fans going over to Fayetteville. Like I said just a minute ago, it's easy to get over there. You go there and back in one day if you want to. Nothing like getting people's juices flowing by a bunch of enemies coming into your own ballpark and trying to take it over. So that would be a good one.

You've also got the OU-Florida. The long-time deal with Tim Walton and Patty and a lot of World Series matchups, those kinds of things. Oklahoma-Alabama, the Battle of the Crimson, that's going to be a good one. But just the proximity is going to be fascinating. I think Oklahoma-Arkansas could be a lot of fun in softball.

Jenni: Yeah, I wonder if Tim Walton sort of becomes the Kenny Gajewski for OU fans. The former Sooner who now leads a program that's trying to vie for superiority with Oklahoma. I think the Florida softball rivalry could get nice and juicy. But look, too, at where Oklahoma's lost some of its transfers. I mean, Jocelyn Erickson at Florida. They lost a couple to Tennessee. So if a team starts to siphon up some transfers … South Carolina got Quincee Lilio this year. Avery Hodge is going to LSU. So they're losing some transfers to the SEC. That could percolate some stuff. I think there could be some nice juicy rivalries coming out of softball as Oklahoma moves to the SEC. 

What about basketball, Berry? Let's start on the men's side. Oklahoma's leaving arguably the best men's basketball conference in the country for a pretty good one in the SEC, but what about rivals in basketball on the hardwood, men's side?

Berry: Well, I think Arkansas has a lot of possibilities. They've been playing in Tulsa the last, what, four or five years. Had some good games. Eric Musselman has put on some theatrics over at the BOK Center. 

Jenni: Doesn't he put them on everywhere? 

Berry: That's everywhere he goes. He did keep his shirt on in Tulsa and Green Country, thanks you very much, Eric Musselman. You know, Arkansas is sort of higher on the food chain right now, but both have great histories, been in a bunch of Final Fours, had a lot of iconic coaches and success. So that's a good one. 

Texas A&M is not what we would consider a basketball school, but you know, the proximity is there. I'm anxious to see what Kentucky does. Kentucky and Kansas are very similar in their pedigree, their fan bases, their travel. You know, when KU would play in Norman, maybe a third of Lloyd Noble Center would be Jayhawk fans. I know the Wildcats travel like crazy as well. It's a lot farther to Lexington than it is to Lawrence, but how much will Kentucky blue be in Lloyd Noble Center or whatever the new arena might be called there in north Norman? So I got my eye on that one.

You also look at Tennessee, if Rick Barnes is still there .Rick used to come to town as the Texas coach. I think that would be a fun matchup, but I think you're looking mostly at Arkansas. Maybe Arkansas becomes the school that most closely fills in the Bedlam gap of the home-and-home.

Seems like an outlier is Missouri. Tigers have a good basketball tradition, much of it in the past. I think they're coming off an 0-18 season in the SEC, so that's not good. Norm Stewart would be rolling over in his grave if he in fact was in the grave, but Stormin’ Norman is still with us. Bless his heart and what memories we've got of the old Big Eight. And Norm Stewart there going up against Eddie Sutton or Billy Tubbs or Roy Williams. Go back to the 70s when Jack Hartman and Ted Owens and whoever it might be. So Norm was a great, great instigator for Missouri basketball. I don't know if that program can be instigated again, can spark a rivalry, but OU-Missouri have had some great tussles.

Jenni: Yeah, I think an instigator like that is what it's going to take to drum up a men's basketball rivalry. I don't know who that is out there, quite honestly, in the SEC. There are some contenders, but I don't know if there's anything like Norm Stewart. But we'll have to wait and see. I'm not as sure on men's basketball, Berry, as I am, or at least, I guess, I want to be sure because I want to see Jenny Baranczyk and Kim Mulkey …

Berry: She's back! We just thought we were getting rid of her. If the SEC called Baylor today and said, ‘Hey, we need another team. Come on over. Bring your whole deal. You'll make twice as much money,’ every school in America would say, ‘Let's go, let's go.’ Baylor would say, ‘You know what, we've seen enough of Kim Mulkey. We’ll pass.’

Jenni: I don't have any idea how Oklahoma women's basketball will fare against LSU, but I think the coaching head to head is prime for that to be a great rivalry because, boy, LSU is fantastic. South Carolina is fantastic. I don't know if I see Oklahoma going toe-to-toe with them right away, but it's going to be really fun to see Kim Mulkey on that sideline again at Lloyd Noble in Norman.

Berry: Yeah. And you know, Texas is still great in women's basketball. OU’s won two straight Big 12 titles, but the Texas program is fantastic. A&M’s good. Tennessee has the pedigree. So it's a big-time women's basketball conference, maybe approaching where it was in its hey day of 15 years ago or so. 

That's going to be a fun one. And you know what might be as good as anybody, including softball, is women's gymnastics. They're loaded in women's gym, and KJ is going to take her team over there, and I think that's going to be fantastic too. 

The person I feel most sorry for is a guy that can handle himself. That's Skip Johnson. Cause that dang baseball is out of control. Last four years, Men's College World Series … eight different schools have made the finals. All eight will be in the SEC next season. One of them is the Sooners, OU-Ole Miss, but also the year before that it was Mississippi State-Vanderbilt, last year LSU-Florida, last week in the championship, Tennessee beats Texas A&M. The Longhorns aren't even on the list and they're one of the best three or four programs in NCAA baseball history. So that's a loaded bear. Skip Johnson, he's turning the Sooner program around, doing a great job, but man, he’s headed for a murderer’s row.

Jenni: Yeah, I think baseball is gonna be hard pressed to come up with a great rivalry until they really elevate. It's not necessarily the program, cause I think the program is actually in pretty good shape. But it's the scene. It's what's the atmosphere gonna be like at L. Dale Mitchell Park, because everywhere else in the SEC is jam packed. It's like Mardi Gras. It’s a big party. So to me, that's a really big question.

But women's gymnastics is interesting, Berry. LSU won the national championship this year after Oklahoma stumbled, failed to make the final. Again, speaking of big environments, LSU women's gymnastics, Florida women's gymnastics, those places are packed. They don't just have 6,000 or 7,000. They have 12,000 or 14,000. So those are places that KJ Kindler and her Sooners have been to, but what's it like when those teams are your conference foes, and every year they're on the schedule. I think it's gonna be fun to see what rivalries exist there. And maybe there's sports we haven't even talked about, Bwrry. What else comes to mind on rivals?

Berry: Well, the one thing I want to say, OU baseball, I was very impressed this year. Skip Johnson, the OU athletic department, marketing crew, they did a really good job of getting more people into Mitchell Park. It's not like going to Arkansas or Mississippi State or someplace, but they did a really good job. Big upgrade. I took that as a very positive, positive step. 

Other sports that matter to OU, volleyball has not really taken off in Soonerland. That's going to be a very difficult sport in the SEC in part because Texas is dominant and great. Texas is going with the Sooners to the SEC. 

When you get to wrestling, no effect. Sooner wrestlers are going to stay in the Big 12. 

And I can tell you what's going to be a battle royale is that SEC golf championship because, you know, SEC plays great golf. Now so does the Big 12, the Pac 12. Lots of teams have great golf. But you know, Ryan Hybl has done a great job with that program. Constant national contenders. They're going from one frying pan to another. They're just going to get to play some different courses. Goodbye to Prairie Dunes in Hutch, one of the all time great middle America golf courses. They'll just have to go find some more plums in the Southeast.

Jenni: Boy, lots yet to be seen in the SEC for the Sooners, but I love talking about these potential rivals. Let's do this again in another year, and we'll see where we've come after a year of OU in the SEC. Whether we're right, wrong, it's gonna be fun. 

Berry, what’ve you got coming up in the Tulsa World? 

Berry: I've got a four part series on the newcomers to the Big 12. Utah, Arizona, Arizona State and Colorado. We're all focused on OU going to the SEC, but we got four newcomers coming into the Big 12. And here's a sense of how much things have changed; I’ll leave you with this — come Monday, OSU is going to be in a 16-team conference half of which, half of which, was not in the Big 12 one year ago today. One year ago today. That's how much things have changed.