Will Auburn win give the Sooners momentum? Michael Hawkins meet Sammy B? The Kip-Six, shades of Torrance Marshall?
All that more with Tulsa World columnist Berry Tramel.
Oklahoma went on the road to play against arguably the toughest home-field advantage in the SEC, started a true freshman quarterback making his first start, played without its top FIVE wide receivers, trailed by two scores deep into the fourth quarter and get this — the Sooners won the game.
How do you explain it?
Tulsa World columnist Berry Tramel says it has to be Sooner Magic.
I tend to believe having a quarterback who didn’t give the ball to the other team might be more the answer for what we saw at Auburn.
But we’ll discuss all that and more as the Sooners head into their first bye week on The Jenni Carlson Show.
Episode highlights
1:18: Berry got to see that 27-21 win over Auburn, and he thought it was Sooner Magic. Really?
3:11: What was most impressive about Michael Hawkins?
5:55: Hawkins’ cartwheel, shades of Sammy B?
8:47: Kip Lewis’ interception, shades of Torrance Marshall?
12:17: What was most impressive about the OU defense?
15:25: Off-week goals for the Sooners?
18:16: What about Texas?
21:31: Predictions! Not a game, but a season win total.
Producer: Jacquelyn Musgrove
Creative Director: Michael Lane
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Transcript
Jenni: Berry, you got to see the Sooners first SEC road game. You got to see a big come-from-behind victory, 27-21 over Auburn. And your conclusion was Sooner Magic. Really?
Berry: Well, it sort of was. This is a game OU had no business winning. You know, Bill Connelly of ESPN has all these mathematical equations for figuring out football stuff. Sometimes he goes after games and looks at the statistics and says, ‘These are the statistics — what's a team's chances of winning?’ He gave Auburn a 75.3% chance of winning the game.
If you watch the game, you never thought OU was going to win until all of a sudden …
Jenni: They did.
Berry: … it flipped in the middle of the fourth quarter. I get home and everybody said, ‘Did you have to rewrite your story?’ And I said, ‘Well, I wasn't on a stiff deadline, so I didn't start writing it, but mentally I did. I had all kinds of things in my mind and never, never entered my mind that OU might win this game.’ And then all of a sudden, you know, 60-yard bomb, a pick-six, game’s over and OU is ahead.
So, I thought it was a great win for the Sooners, just pulling the rabbit out of the hat like that in such a tough environment. Left the Auburn fans pretty stunned, but it was just what Oklahoma needed and gave them hope that things are going to get better and this thing could turn around.
Jenni: Auburn never really put OU away. I think that was a credit to the Oklahoma defense for not letting Auburn get crazy and do some things that might have made the score too far out of hand to come back. But obviously, it was an unlikely come-from-behind victory just because of what we'd seen the first three-plus quarters.
All eyes were on Michael Hawkins, Berry, as you mentioned, heading into a very tough environment and going 10 for 15 for 161 passing yards, had 69 rushing yards. Had obviously that huge cross-country run for a touchdown, 48 yards, and then the 60-yard bomb pass that you just mentioned to JJ Hester.
But the thing I liked best on his stat line: zero turnovers. No turnovers for the true freshmen in a really tough situation. What impressed you most about Michael Hawkins?
Berry: Well, that's it. That he didn't make the mistakes that would get his team beat. You know, they were playing a team that's actually pretty good if they'll just protect the ball, but they haven't protected the ball this season. Saturday, Auburn protected the ball, no turnovers through three quarters. They're dominating. They're up 21-10. And you know, Auburn had missed a short field goal and had been stopped at the 1-yard line on fourth down. This was close to a rout.
So, Auburn was dominating and then one pass by the Sooners and then finally the big turnover. It didn't come from the true freshmen making his starting debut in an SEC snake pit. Came from a fifth-year senior. I think Payton Thorne’s a fifth-year senior. Anyway, it came from a veteran of the SEC, a guy who's quarterbacked a million games. He'd played a wonderful game. He hadn't thrown it to the other team. And then he threw it to Kip Lewis and the game not only turned, the game was decided ,and that's just the way football is.
You know, Cris Collinsworth talked about it on Sunday Night Football. Turnovers are just so important anymore in football. Teams are better. Teams are more even. And a turnover is a massive flip of the game. We saw what it did to the Sooners against Tennessee. We saw what it did to Auburn against the Sooners. So, that was it.
You're right, Michael Hawkins took care of the ball. I think there was one play, one pass if I remember right, could have been intercepted or potentially, but he didn't fumble. He just played a good floor game. He had a couple of big plays. He wasn't spectacular. He wasn't terribly efficient. He didn't stay in the pocket long enough, I don't think. I think he was too quick to scatter around and run around, but he'll learn and he'll get better. He's not losing the ball, and that'll get you way down the road with football coaches.
Jenni: For sure. We'll talk more about Kip Lewis and his interception in just a second. But I think people are having some flashbacks with Michael Hawkins, Berry. He cartwheeled into the end zone again at Auburn. He did it in that game against Tennessee. I know when he did it against Tennessee, I thought, ‘Ooh, Sam Bradford from Bedlam back in the day.’ And then Hawkins did it again. Hey listen, I don't think Sam Bradford wanted to cartwheel into the end zone back in the day. I don't think Michael Hopkins minds a little contact when he's out there running.
Berry: Michael Hawkins looked a little choreographed. Looked like, ‘Hey, I can do this, so I'm going to.’ Sam Bradford was minding his own business in Stillwater and all of sudden found himself upside down. That was not his intent then, and it would not be his intent now. But it was sort of cool that all of a sudden Michael Hawkins has the type of signature play that helps people win the Heisman. Won't help him this year win the Heisman, but who knows about future.
That was a really cool play, and it's a big play. The Sooners go up 22-21. That's the difference in a field goal tying to go to overtime or a field goal winning the game. And that's massive. And when it came on the heels of the pick-six that left everybody stunned, I think it just added insult to the injury of Auburn and really put the Tigers in a hole.
The Sooners just sort of dominated those last eight, 10 minutes. So yeah, it was a cool play, showed off his athletic ability, which we saw it much of the day. Most of it running for his life. But at that point, not running for his life, but running for pay dirt.
Jenni: Obviously, there were things about Michael Hawkins’ performance that I'm sure we can nitpick. Like you say, fled the pocket probably too quickly on multiple occasions. But OU’s got an offensive line that's not great. I understand it. He'll have to be better moving forward in a lot of ways, but for a first start and it being on the road, I think it's a good starting point.
And you know what? The same things we said about Jackson Arnold before the season — first-time starter, he's gonna have ups and downs, he’s gonna make mistakes, he’s gonna look great one minute, not great the next — it’s gonna apply to Michael Hawkins, too. He's gonna have good stretches followed by bad stretches. That's what happens with young quarterbacks, and it definitely happens in the SEC. But I do think first time around you have to give him really high marks for what he did and did not do at Auburn, mainly not turning the ball over.
Can we talk about the OU defense next? Because as you mentioned, not the greatest offense that Oklahoma is going to face in the SEC. OU gave up 482 yards. Not fantastic in the total offense department. But Kip Lewis. Kip Lewis. Shades of another Sooner season past. Remember when Torrance Marshall picked off that pass at Texas A&M in the 2000 national championship season? Felt like the same thing for Kip Lewis.
Now, Berry, no national championships this year, but still a huge moment for Kip Lewis and that defense.
Berry: Similar plays, right? I mean, he's sort of got in front of a slant that probably shouldn't have been thrown, and Kip Lewis had been playing really well, but he's not really a star of the defense. I'm guessing he plays two-thirds of the plays on defense. He's not necessarily an every-down player. But a guy that's really played well, has really made a name for himself and doing well.
And all of a sudden he's in position to make a play and makes one. You know, Payton Thorne just played so well, but R Mason Thomas, who's becoming Mr. Fourth Quarter, he gets a good rush on. And this was a 3rd and 3. R Mason after the game, I talked to him and said, ‘Why have you been so good in the fourth quarter?’ And he says, ‘Hey, when we know what they're going to do it, when we know where they're going to pass, I can pin my ears back. Here I go. That's my advantage.’ But 3rd and 3, I think they're on the 40-yard line, the OU 40 or the 42, can't remember. Anyway, 3rd and 3, you don't know they're going to pass. In fact, they shouldn't have passed. They should have ran the ball, and R Mason still gets a good rush. He's barreling in on Payton Thorne, gets his hands up, apparently does not tip the ball. All he had to say was that he did tip it and everybody would have went with it because we thought he did. But that pressure from R Mason Thomas forces Payton Thorne to throw it when he didn't want to. Kip Lewis is there. He takes it to the house. (Cam) Coleman, Auburn’s speedy wide receiver, looks like he's going to catch him. Did catch him, but it was too late in the end zone.
So yeah, a play that'll live forever. At least the rest of my lifetime, I won't forget it. Maybe in 50 years, people forget it. A lot of people don't remember Randy Hughes’ interception return against Colorado in the ‘70s. So I don't know why they'd remember Kip Lewis’ interception in the next ‘70s. But it's a great play. It's a great play. And considering the circumstances, OU's discouraging performance against Tennessee, the daunting road ahead, the historical significance of the first SEC road game, this was a huge play that propelled Oklahoma to victory.
I told people, ‘You know what? Kip Lewis, he's always going to have Auburn.’ He'll be a made man in Norman, Oklahoma for decades to come.
Jenni: And Oklahoma will always have the Kip Lewis interception, too. So it's a two-way street there. Especially when you look at this SEC schedule, this was a winnable game, even though it was the first road game, even though they took a true freshman quarterback in there. Auburn not having a great year, a mess on offense with their quarterback situation. This was a game Oklahoma had to feel like they could win, and so to have won, I think was pretty important.
The overall picture on this defense, Berry while obviously Kip Lewis, R Mason Thomas closing … I mean, I've never heard of a closer defensive end, but that's what he's becoming. I don't know how that happens. But this defense faced 75 plays while the OU offense only had 47. So time of possession tilted in favor of Auburn by almost 11 minutes. And still that defense comes up big at the end. Was that no give up, no give in, was that maybe one of the bigger takeaways from this game?
Berry: Yeah, you know, the OU defense, it was a stiffer test than what most people thought. Auburn, coming into that game, Auburn led the SEC in big plays. It's a big-play offense. Got a bunch of speedy wide receiver receivers. Hugh Freeze runs a wide-open offense, does all kinds of things. They actually like Payton Thorne as a quarterback if he’d just quit throwing the ball to the other team. They have options. Have weapons.
And you know, they were clicking. Auburn had 26 first downs. Think about that. OU ran, you said, 47 plays.
Jenni: Yep, 75 to 47.
Berry: OU runs 47 plays. Auburn had 26 first downs. Plus, Auburn had all those big plays. They threw deep six times, 20 yards or more downfield. They completed five of them, which is unbelievable efficiency. Only one of them was like an intermediate 20 yarder, one was over 30, and I think three over 40. So they hurt OU with the deep ball, and the Sooners hung in there and somehow held them to 21 points.
To me, that was a red letter day for the OU defense, to hold that offense to 21 points when you clearly didn't have your A game and you clearly weren't playing that great. You're getting beat deep. The corners were getting beat deep. The Auburn running game was working pretty good, but OU stood tall. Couple of red-zone stands, a goal-line stand in the first quarter, held Auburn to a field short field goal try at the end of the second quarter. He missed it. So I thought it was a very tough test, not a great day for that defense, but man, they stood in there and kept Auburn from getting too far ahead and gave gave the Sooners a chance to win it.
I was going to say give the offense a chance to win it, but then the defense took matters into its own hand. So you know, that was just a heck of a performance because that Auburn offense is underrated if they just take care of the ball.
Jenni: Think about it this way too, Berry, the OU defense gave up 21 points, but they also scored seven. So they essentially gave up a net of 14 at the end of the day. So that gives your offense a chance. In the plus-minus, you're minus-14 and with what Auburn, a potentially explosive offense can do, that's gotta make you feel pretty good.
OK, so heading into this off week, Sooners do have to feel pretty good about things, but with the off week, I have to think job No. 1 is figuring out how to get some of these wide receivers healthy. Berry, that was one of the things in talking about Michael Hawkins; he doesn't have his top five wide receivers available to him. I mean, just an unbelievable rash of injuries that the Sooners are facing at that position. Is that job No. 1 this off week or is there something else that's at the top of the Sooners’ list?
Berry: Well, I think that's No. 1. You know, I'm like everybody else — I want Seth Littrell to do better coordinating that OU offense, but I really don't know what Seth can do if you run out of wide receivers. One thing you can do is go more power and play more tight ends and stuff. And that's what he did. They ran a bunch of multiple tight end sets, but their tight ends aren't very good. This is not vintage …
Jenni: This is not Trent Smith or Joe Jon Finley even.
Berry: Yeah. Mark Andrews, or you know, back in the day, OU once had an All-Big Eight tight end who got beat out by Wayne Hoffman the next year. So Albert Chandler and Wayne, that whole crew, they've always had good tight ends. And they just don't right now.
So, unless you go to the wishbone, play three running backs, but even (Taylor) Tatum is a hurt. So, I don't know what to do there, but get those wide receivers healthy because we said coming into the season, that's the best part of the OU offense.
It's like in ‘Happy Days’ when when Fonzie fixed the car of Richie and Potsie, but he took the cool eagle hood ornament off as retribution for his pay. And Potsie looks at Richie and said, ‘He took the best part of the car.’ Well, they've taken the best part of the OU offense.
It's not a great offense to start with, but if they could get a couple of those guys back, especially Deion Burks. Look at how valuable Deion Burks was in the first four games. I mean, he's a major part of the offense. The offense in a lot of ways went through him. If he's not out there, they're really lost. So if they could get Burks back in the slot, if they could get whoever … I don't even know who might could come back. Doesn't look great for (Nic) Anderson. Doesn't look great for (Andrel) Anthony. It's not going to be (Jalil) Farooq. It's not (Jayden) Gibson. Right now I think you would just take Burks. But Hester came through with a big catch. I mean, he didn't do anything except run down the field and Hawkins laid it in his bread basket, but he caught it. So he got behind the guys. Right now, just Burks would be a really nice addition going into the Cotton Bowl.
Jenni: Let's talk about Texas for a second because that is the game that looms. Obviously, Texas playing fantastically, not the No. 1 team in the country anymore because of what Alabama did to Georgia, but still a very, very good Longhorn team. And obviously this will be a challenge that exceeds what Auburn threw at Oklahoma this past weekend. So if you're Oklahoma, what worries you most about the Longhorns?
Berry: They're just well rounded. I mean, they're really good on offense, really good on defense. Looks like Steve Sarkisian has a powerhouse. I think the OU defense is going to be able to hold up. I don't think Quinn Ewers or Arch Manning is going to light up the Sooners, but after watching the OU offense, whether it's Jackson Arnold or Michael Hawkins, you wonder how they'll be able to score much.
You know, Michigan proved that it could run the ball pretty dang well, but they didn't really do much on Texas. The Horns are otherwise unproven other than the Wolverines. So, the Sooners have got to figure out how to move the ball. That's clearly, I think, going to have to be with Michael Hawkins and his feet with some timely passes. Try to shorten the game, condense it. Try to win this game 23-20, 20-17, something like that. That’s not a great plan, but you know what? Texas has upset the Sooners and scared the Sooners quite a bit when they were big underdogs. And you know, it's time for OU to do the same. It actually happened last year. OU was really good. I mean, that was a 10-win team, so it shouldn't have been a one-sided affair. But we've seen Texas in the last 30, 40 years, do this a lot to Oklahoma. It's time for Oklahoma to do it to Texas. Try to turn the talent a little bit sideways and win in the end.
Jenni: You talk about Texas moving things. I think the bigger question will be, can Oklahoma move some of these Texas linemen? I I think the biggest difference that Steve Sarkisian has brought to Texas is … I think he calls them big humans. He's gotten a lot of big humans in Austin. They paid special attention to what they did with NIL, with offensive linemen. And Berry, like you say, Michigan is the one test, but Texas looked like a team that, for years, we talked about how Texas wasn't physical. It wasn't physical in this game against Oklahoma. Now, they're bludgeoning people. They are punishing people with their big humans. So I think that's going to be a real question mark. Can the Oklahoma lines of scrimmage, which has been an ongoing theme, can they move the Horns to do enough damage offensively, defensively? I don't know. To me, that's the big question. It's not the sexy question. People are going to want to talk about Michael Hawkins, Quinn Ewers, Arch Manning, skill positions. But to me, it comes down to line of scrimmage and what Oklahoma can do on the line of scrimmage against Texas.
OK, no predictions this week because of the bye week. But here's a curveball for you. After what you saw at Auburn, what's your best guess on OU’s season record? Left on the schedule, OU’s got Texas obviously, then South Carolina, Maine, Alabama at home, at Ole Miss, at Missouri, at LSU. Where do you think the Sooners land when all is said and done?
Berry: Well, the Sooners are not as good as we thought they were. I thought they were gonna be a pretty good football team, really good on defense. And I thought the offense would not be necessarily Kyler Murray standard, but would be really good. It's not.
But I was more encouraged after Saturday. I think the Sooners can get to 7-5. I think a 7-5 finish right now would be really good considering where this team was coming out of Houston, coming out of Tennessee. We'll see if they can get there.
You know, at halftime of the Auburn game, I was wondering if OU could get bowl eligible. Maybe scratch its way to six wins, get to the Liberty Bowl, play Bedlam or something. But now I think they can get to seven. Won't be easy. South Carolina will be difficult, but some of the rest of the schedule looks more manageable. Ole Miss is not as good as we thought; we saw that Saturday. Missouri's not as good as we thought. Still won't be easy to win in Oxford or Columbia. But those are winnable games. South Carolina, same way. And then, of course, you got the Black Bears of Maine. So I think the Sooners, if they can get to 7-5, I think you have to sort of raise your hat to Brent Vendables and say, ‘Better luck next year, but at least you got this far.’
Jenni: Yeah, I tend to think that Oklahoma goes to LSU at the end of the regular season with a chance to win eight games. I don't think they get to eight, but I think seven is possible because of what you said, Berry. We look at this schedule and some of the games we thought would be difficult maybe aren't as difficult, but like Alabama in Norman, I think when the season started, I thought, ‘Maybe that's a toss-up.’ After what we saw this last weekend with the Bama? Woof. I don't think that's a toss up anymore. I got that solidly for the Crimson Tide, but I still think OU can get to 7-5. Very doable. Got to go play well. Got to go probably to Missouri or Ole Miss and win. But it seems like that's a possibility right now for Oklahoma. So we'll see.
Hey, before we let you get out of here, Berry, anything coming up on OU and the Tulsa World or at TulsaWorld.com you want to let people know about?
Berry: Over the weekend, I've got an interesting theory about a certain quarterback who no longer is playing: Jackson Arnold. I got a new twist, I think, on Jackson Arnold. So I think people would enjoy that. That'll probably be out on Sunday.