Tennessee to launch OU's SEC era? Yes, please! Plus, Heupel's return and the Vols' potent run game
All that and more with Tulsa World columnist Berry Tramel.
OU vs. Tennessee has been circled on a lot of calendars for months, provided people still do things like circle dates on calendars.
Still, OU's first game in the SEC was always going to be a big day.
But now Tennessee rides into Norman as one of the hottest teams in college football. The Vols aren't just undefeated; they've outscored their first three opponents 191-13.
What does all this mean for the Sooners?
We'll talk about that and more with Tulsa World columnist Berry Tramel on The Jenni Carlson Show.
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Episode highlights
1:05: Has Tennessee really been tested yet?
2:10: Most impressive thing about the Vols?
3:21: What about Tennessee might OU be able to exploit?
4:47: OU’s O-line vs. Tennessee’s D-line? Yikes.
7:03: OU will beat Tennessee if …
9:53: Is there an X factor in this game?
11:11: What is Josh Heupel’s return going to look and sound like Saturday?
15:19: Most important under-the-radar question: is the Tennessee band coming to Norman?
16:35: Predictions!
Producer: Jacquelyn Musgrove
Creative Director: Michael Lane
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Transcript
Jenni: Well, Berry, Tennessee ranked sixth in the national polls. You've got the Vols 12th in your top 12 rankings in the Tulsa World, which obviously the College Football Playoff is going to 12 teams this year. So looking at those top 12, you did what the selection committee will do. Why did you have the Vols 10th and maybe not higher as some voters elsewhere did?
Berry: Tennessee's looked fantastic, but their only test was North Carolina State and the Wolfpack is not nearly as good as we thought they were. When I'm ranking teams, I don't project. I don't try to figure out who's the best. I just look and see who's done what. And there are at least nine teams with more impressive victories than Tennessee. That'll change if they come to Norman and win. That changes. It changes massively week to week, so the Vols look loaded. They've got the great offense under Josh Heupel, so yeah, they don't have to worry about my rankings or anybody else's if they keep playing the way they're playing.
Jenni: Let's talk about what's been impressive to you with Tennessee and maybe what hasn't. What stands out most to you about these Vols?
Berry: The running game. They're just running like crazy. I mean, Kent State is probably the worst team in Division I-A. But was it 455 rushing yards or whatever it was? You know, I don't know if we can put much stock into the numbers this early in the season, but clearly Josh Heupel has the running game going.
Nobody likes to remember it, but when Samaje Perine ran for 429 yards on that rainy day against Kansas, his offensive coordinator was Josh Heupel. So Heupel is not one of these Air Raid guys that just wants to throw 70 times a game. He loves to run the ball. He did it when he was the Sooner offensive coordinator. He's done it since he's become a head coach. So that Vol running game is really potent and I think will really test and stretch that Oklahoma defense.
Jenni: It's a heck of a matchup between an Oklahoma defense that's clearly improved, but a Volunteer offense that is very potent.
What about on the flip side? What are the things that are maybe still a little squishy in your mind as Tennessee comes to Oklahoma?
Berry: People say that their secondary is sort of a little bit unproven. Maybe it is, maybe it's not, I don't claim to know. But in some ways, when you've played a schedule like this and even North Carolina State was a neutral field and the Wolfpack was supposed to be a really good team. Maybe they'll get there, and you don't even write them off just because they got drilled, I think it was 51-10. You can't write them off just because they got drilled by Tennessee, but they come back last week, play Louisiana Tech, mess around with the Bulldogs most of the game, trailed a good chunk, finally win, I think it was 30-20. So, you know, we'll have to see if the Tennessee schedule has proven to be much.
This will be their biggest test, playing an Oklahoma team that frankly has not played as well as anyone thought it would. But you come to Norman and win, and you've proved your mettle. In some ways, both teams are pretty untested. Oklahoma had a pretty benign non-conference schedule and Tennessee turns out maybe driving down that boulevard, even though the Vols have been much more spectacular against that schedule.
Jenni: For sure. Much more certainty in those victories than Oklahoma had. And obviously that leads us to the big question mark for Oklahoma: that offensive line. Berry, had Bob Kesling, the Voice of the Vols, on my show earlier this week. And he was talking about 12 defensive linemen being used by the Volunteers. They have one of the best players in the country in James Pearce at the edge. Is this a big problem? Because this Oklahoma offensive line, they looked better against Tulane, but Tulane's not Tennessee, Berry.
Berry: It looks like a mismatch, and maybe it is. You know, the OU offensive line has not played well. They've not produced in the running game, injuries, newcomers, lack of cohesion, lots of things going on there. Sooners went to the portal, got four guys, hasn't really panned out the way they hoped.
If Branson Hickman comes back at center, the SMU transfer, I think that would help immensely. He sprained an ankle the first possession, I think it was, against Temple. So really hasn't played this season. You gotta have your center. Sooners have tried the sophomore, second year Josh Bates. Hadn't played much. I guess he's a redshirt freshmen, but Hickman would probably help a lot. So we'll see if that transpires.
But I think Bill Bedenbaugh is still searching. I think he's still looking. I think he's still trying to figure out how to fit the puzzle together. And if you've ever done a puzzle, you know early in the in the shooting match, you say, ‘What is this? I don't even know what's going on here.’ And that's really what's going on with this OU line. We don't know what they've got other than what we've seen is not very good. This would be the time to get good. Tennessee is a supreme test on that defensive line, and the Vols have the potential to dominate the game because of that defensive line.
Jenni: Creed Humphrey isn't walking through that door for Bill Bedenbaugh, but yeah, injuries have hurt. But it just has not been the kind of rebuilt line that a lot of people thought it would be under Bill Bedenbaugh to this point.
Because of that, where do you think OU can find its biggest area to exploit with Tennessee? Maybe it's not offensively, maybe it's defensively, but what is that area that OU really needs to lean into in this matchup?
Berry: Well, OU's defense has got to play great to win. I don't think they can win a shootout. I don't think they can win a shooting match. And you know what's interesting is, the OU-Tennessee games of 10 and nine years ago, ’14 here in Norman, ’15 in Knoxville were not high scoring affairs. I thin OU won 34-18 or 34-16, whatever it was in Norman in 2014. But got a little bit away from Tennessee late. And then the game in Knoxville, double overtime. I mean, it's 17-17. That was actually a really good solid defensive effort. And Mike Stoops, his best defense in his comeback at OU was 2015. They were really a good defense in ’15. Nobody wants to remember that, same as they don't want to remember Josh Heupel had really good offenses.
But they need a game like that. They need a 17-17 game going into the fourth quarter. They need 20-17 midway through the fourth quarter. If they need 35 points to win, I don't see Jackson Arnold's offense doing that. So they need that defense to play well, control that Tennessee running game, don't let Nico i-am-a-LEE-va … Did I get close on that?
Jenni: No, you didn't actually.
Berry: I didn’t? So you can't say it phonetically?
Jenni: It's ee-ah-MAH-LAY-ah-va
Berry: ee-ah-MAH-LAY-ah-va.
Jenni: It’s six syllables: ee-ah-MAH-LAY-ah-va.
Berry: Well, that's very labor intensive, but I'll try. Don't let Nico get going. He's a budding or a budded star. May already be a star. So, they’ve got to contain him. Don't let him have massive gains, whether out of the pocket or just through the passing game. So the defense has to play a phenomenal game. They got to play a game probably unlike we've seen out of an OU defense in a long time.
Jenni: Seems to me like the defense needs to make sure it outscores the Tennessee defense. Something like we saw with Tulane when Jackson Arnold throws not only a pick, but a pick-six, that's the type of thing that you can't have in a game like this. Oklahoma's defense might need to score. It might need to have its own pick-six or its own fumble recovery. But you can't have Jackson Arnold giving up points to the Tennessee defense.
Is there an X factor in this game, Berry? Is there something that swings this game that maybe we aren't even talking about?
Berry: I’m not sure there is. I mean, I think it's easy to say OU needs to win the special teams, the kicking game. And that's probably true. I don't know if it's absolutely true.
They got a lot better than the Houston debacle. I just think the OU has got to move the ball on some level. Cause the defense will hold up. I think the OU defense will play well, but if they got to go out there 12 or 13 times and stop Nico's offense, that's a tough ask. So if you can just have some sustained drives, even if they end in punts, just don't have a quarter where you punt three or four times. You know, do some things.
Jenni: No three-and-out.
Berry: Right. Yeah. So I'd like to see that whether it's through the short passing game, which they love. This is the short passing game offense, but we saw OU run the ball better against Tulane. And as you said, Tulane's not a bad team. So if they can sustain some drives and get some things going, give that defense a breather so the defense can come out and get some stops, then I think we'll have a fourth-quarter game.
Jenni: Before we get to predictions, let's talk a little Josh Heupel. You mentioned his offense, and obviously we will see those fingerprints all over Tennessee. But this is game that has a lot of undercurrents to it as well with the national champion quarterback returning after being let go by Bob Stoops, who obviously brought in Lincoln Riley, worked out famously, hard to argue with the decision. But all of the emotion of that, what's that gonna look like on Saturday, Berry?
Berry: I think OU will do a nice, small — not five minutes — but a nice, small tribute to Heupel. I think he'll be welcomed back. I don't think it's going to be real nice for Josh in terms of the fan involvement after the game starts, but I think pregame he'll be honored. He's not the most emotional of guys. I knew a girl who once made him cry. She took great pride in that. She's on the screen with me, by the way.
Jenni: Yeah.
Berry: That was 25 years ago with getting him to talk about his grandfather. Is that what it was when you went to do a story on him in Aberdeen, South Dakota?
Jenni: Truth.
Berry: But I don't think Josh can get overemotional. I do think he's going to enjoy it. I think he does appreciate his OU days. I do think he considers himself a lifelong Sooner. I just don't know that he's gotten over all his hard feelings about Bob Stoops firing him, but I do think he's made inroads even in that. The ice is slowly melting.
And he's going to feel real good coming in with a team like he's got. You know, if he was coming in with Mark Stoops’ Kentucky team or Hugh Freeze's Auburn team, he probably would not be having the same jolly feeling as he's probably feeling now, but he's coming in with a rock-solid team that looks like it could be great. So he's probably going to enjoy the weekend. The scoreboard will determine about much he enjoys the back half of it. But the pregame revelry, the honors, all those things, I think Josh will take a small little fragment and then smell the roses.
Jenni: I think it's important that this current staff at OU is, it's a tie back to when Heupel was a player, to the best of days. Brent Venables was obviously defensive coordinator at the time. They've got a lot of past players from that era of time that are on the staff, the support staff. So I think having those ties has probably helped, but you're right, Berry, the job he's done at Tennessee was not easy either. He came in with a roster that was decimated, NCAA sanctions hit and he had more problems. Tennessee, he's not only beloved by players but fans. I mean, people gotta be loving him in Knoxville.
Berry: You know, I did a column published (Tuesday) in the Tulsa World. The fans just think Josh Heupel is the all-time great. I mean, they've been waiting. They've had a coaching drought. Phil Fulmer won a national title in ’98. He was Peyton Manning's college coach, ’94-’97. Did a great job, but the end of Fulmer sort of petered out. Got fired. Since then, Lane Kiffin came one year, bolted on them, became Public Enemy No. 1. Derek Dooley, big, big failure. Butch Jones, just so so Jeremy Pruitt not only lost; he got them on probation. I mean, it was in disarray. And here comes Josh Heupel, who has fairly quickly restored Tennessee's tradition and brought them back closer to the Alabama-Georgia axis at the top of the SEC. And yeah, they think they've got the total package in Josh Heupel. So he's a Rocky Top hero, and he'll stay that way, I think, for as long as he's got Tennessee winning. And it looks like he's got Tennessee winning for a long while.
Jenni: Speaking of Rocky Top, hope the band is coming, Berry. We haven't even talked about that.
Berry: Yeah, it didn't come in ’14. It was an outrage. It was a travesty. It just blows to smithereens this whole concept of ‘it just means more’ in the SEC. It doesn't mean squat if you can't bring your band to play ‘Rocky Top.’ So I hope the band is there. Cause that's one of the cool things of college football is hearing those iconic songs and ‘Rocky Top’ is clearly up there at the top.
I hadn't even thought of this. Dang, we're in Galway, Ireland this spring. We're in a Uber. Can't remember if we were going to the airport or wherever or to the bus station, train station, wherever we were going. And the guy's got an Irish radio station going, and dang if some Irish people get on there and then with a sort of Irish band, they’re singing a song that sounds a lot like ‘Rocky Top.’ I said, ‘What is the heck is that? Who is that?’ And this guy knew who the band was. Looked them up, and they do sing a version of ‘Rocky Top.’ So I heard ‘Rocky Top’ in Galway, Ireland this spring.
Jenni: Well, then you should be able to hear it in Norman, Oklahoma, on Saturday, for crying out loud.
Berry: That's exactly right.
Jenni: But I guess the question becomes, how much might people gonna hear it on Saturday? What's your prediction for this one, Berry?
Berry: I think Tennessee. Not that long ago, OU was a pretty solid favorite in this game. Now Tennessee's a seven-point favorite. There are so many more avenues available to the Volunteers to win this game than for Oklahoma to win this game. This would be a fairly significant upset. One of the bigger home upsets the Sooners have ever produced. Of course, they're not an underdog very often on Owen Field.
I'm taking Tennessee 27-20.
Jenni: I got Tennessee winning as well. You and I talked about this the other day, and I think it's going to be double digits, but I do think the Oklahoma defense is going to play well. So I still think it's going to be low scoring. I think 24-14 or 24-13, somewhere in that range is what I'm thinking.
This Oklahoma offense worries me. I mean, 16 points against Houston, improved against Tulane, but still this Tennessee defense I think is going to be a real-deal challenge for Oklahoma and where they are right now.
Hey, lastly, you mentioned your piece talking to Tennessee fans. Any other OU-Tennessee stuff coming down the pipe at TulsaWorld.com?
Berry: Well, I got a column later in the week on Tennessee quarterback, Nico i-uh-MY-LAH-vey-la. How close did I get, Jacko?
Jenni: ee-ah-MAH-LAY-ah-va.
Berry: ee-ah-MAH-LAY-ah-va. He and Jackson Arnold, same quarterback class. Elite 11 quarterback class of 2023. It's a star-studded class. All kinds of names in there that college football fans will know. Nico has moved to the top of that list. This guy's something else. That's what the Sooners were hoping out of Jackson Arnold. Hasn't been quite as quick for him. So I got a piece on this interesting early showdown in the careers of these two class of ’23 quarterbacks.